The worldmail list archive ending on 3 Oct 2000


Topics covered in this issue include:

  1. reporting email failures to sender?
       Michael Hannon <hannon at physics.ucdavis dot edu>
       Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:07:00 -0700
  2. Re: reporting email failures to sender?
       Garry Wiegand <squeezix at ithaca dot com>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 04:47:41 -0700
  3. RCPT TO:<> problem
       Justin Parry-Okeden <jpo at sandwichdirect dot com>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:37:39 +1100
  4. Is WM an open relay server ?
       Mike <mike at barlow dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:37:17 +0100
  5. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       <chris at ctay dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:42:21 -0500
  6. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       "Ian Homewood" <ianh at stanley.co dot uk>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:43:27 +0100
  7. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       Mike <mike at barlow dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:05:06 +0100
  8. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       <chris at ctay dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:00:33 -0500
  9. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       John Aldridge <john.aldridge at informatix.co dot uk>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:09:45 +0100
 10. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       <chris at ctay dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:23:27 -0500
 11. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       Mike <mike at barlow dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:37:59 +0100
 12. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
        Scott.Menke at wellpoint dot com
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:16:00 -0700
 13. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       Greg Bullough <gwb at outofchaos dot com>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:45:39 -0400
 14. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       Mike <mike at barlow dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:07:19 +0100
 15. Relay and reply anomoly
       "Philip K. Dunn" <pkdunn at hoptechno dot com>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:44:09 -0500
 16. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       <chris at ctay dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:32:19 -0500
 17. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       Greg Bullough <gwb at outofchaos dot com>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:52:02 -0400
 18. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       <chris at ctay dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:02:41 -0500
 19. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       Greg Bullough <gwb at outofchaos dot com>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:10:09 -0400
 20. Re: Is WM an open relay server ?
       "Darren Farmer" <farmerd at adspower dot com>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:15:20 -0500
 21. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       <chris at ctay dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:23:02 -0500
 22. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       <chris at ctay dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:25:02 -0500
 23. RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
       Mike <mike at barlow dot net>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:22:38 +0100
 24. Re: Is WM an open relay server ?
       "Gregory J. Hickel" <ghickel at crowderscoggins dot com>
       Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:27:55 -0500
 25. Re: Is WM an open relay server ?
       Mark and Dori Paster <paster at tidalwave dot net>
       Thu, 31 Aug 2000 00:11:50 -0400
 26. Instructions for removal from list...
       "Darren Farmer" <farmerd at adspower dot com>
       Thu, 31 Aug 2000 07:59:40 -0500
 27. RE: RCPT TO:<> problem
       "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
       Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:20:09 +0100
 28. RE: RCPT TO:<> problem
       Justin Parry-Okeden <jpo at sandwichdirect dot com>
       Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:55:26 +1100
 29. RE: RCPT TO:<> problem
       "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
       Sat, 2 Sep 2000 10:40:20 +0100
 30. Licences
       Mark Berry <mark at supportingit.co dot uk>
       Sat, 02 Sep 2000 20:36:53 +0100
 31. RE: RCPT TO:<> problem
       William Hultman <whultman at home dot com>
       Sat, 02 Sep 2000 17:14:14 -0700
 32. Trying to Subscribe new addresses to Mailing List
       "John Hughes" <jhughes at sportsoftgolf dot com>
       Tue, 5 Sep 2000 17:25:00 -0400
 33. Re: Trying to Subscribe new addresses to Mailing List
       William Hultman <whultman at home dot com>
       Tue, 05 Sep 2000 15:45:41 -0700
 34. Bouncing Mail.
       Mark Berry <mark at supportingit.co dot uk>
       Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:12:02 +0100
 35. routing server error
       Devin Campbell <dcampbell at tpc dot org>
       Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:19:41 -0700
 36. Re: routing server error
       "Darren Farmer" <farmerd at adspower dot com>
       Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:37:45 -0500
 37. worldmail2 and Win2000 server
       Lloyd Sharp <lsharp at ozemail.com dot au>
       Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:57:24 +1100
 38. Re: worldmail2 and Win2000 server
       Harry McIntosh <Harry.McIntosh at cdlearning dot com>
       Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:12:31 -0600
 39. mail loop
       Mike Weller <test3 at gordon.chem.wayne dot edu>
       Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:47:28 -0500 (CST)
 40. Re: mail loop
       William Hultman <whultman at home dot com>
       Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:52:56 -0700
 41. RE: mail loop
       "Ian Homewood" <ianh at stanley.co dot uk>
       Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:31:25 +0100
 42. Re: mail loop
       Mike Weller <test3 at gordon.chem.wayne dot edu>
       Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:57:44 -0500 (CST)
 43. Re: mail loop
       Seymour Joseph <sjoseph at bciu.k12.pa dot us>
       Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:53:32 -0400
 44. Re: mail loop
       Mike Weller <test3 at gordon.chem.wayne dot edu>
       Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:01:45 -0500 (CST)
 45. Re: mail loop
       William Hultman <whultman at home dot com>
       Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:39:35 -0700
 46. Re: mail loop
       Harry McIntosh <Harry.McIntosh at cdlearning dot com>
       Sat, 23 Sep 2000 06:33:12 -0600
 47. How to filter spam
       "Sebastian Quek" <sebas at webmaster.com dot sg>
       Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:28:37 +0800
 48. Re: How to filter spam
       William Hultman <whultman at home dot com>
       Sun, 01 Oct 2000 20:22:06 -0700
 49. Security settings
       "Ian Homewood" <ianh at stanley.co dot uk>
       Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:48:34 +0100
 50. routing delay
       "marti jo webb" <marti at ramint dot com>
       Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:14:55 -0700

Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:07:00 -0700
From: Michael Hannon <hannon at physics.ucdavis dot edu>
Subject: reporting email failures to sender?

Greetings.  We've got WorldMail 2 on a Windows NT 4.0 server, using more or 
less the standard configuration.  We've gotten complaints recently from 
some of our "customers" that if their correspondents send them email with, 
for instance, the target name misspelled, the senders don't get notified.

To expand on this a bit: if I send email to a nonexistent user on our main, 
campus computers, as:

	gorgonzola at ucdavis dot edu

then I, as the sender of the email, get notified immediately that there 
ain't no such user.  On the other hand, if I send email to a nonexistent 
user in our WorldMail domain, as:

	gorgonzola at physics.ucdavis dot edu

then I, as the sender of the email, don't get ANY response.  I, as 
postmaster for that domain, DO get notified of the problem, but I don't 
have the time to respond properly to every typo in an email address.

The upshot is that from time to time, people make small mistakes in typing 
the names of the people in this department to whom they're trying to send 
email.  From the perspective of the sender the mail seems to be delivered, 
but it isn't.  And unless I'm personally hovering over the situation, 
nobody finds out about it.

I've looked at all the Internet Mail --> Configure Server options, 
including all the Delivery Status Notification settings, and I've been 
unable to find any setting or combination of settings that causes the 
sender to receive the appropriate, no-such-user message.

Can anybody out there point me in the right direction?  Thanks.

					- Mike
----------
Michael Hannon                  hannon at physics.ucdavis dot edu  (Internet)
Dept. of Physics
University of California        ucdhep::mike (42385::mike)  (HEPnet)
Davis, CA 95616-8677            530.752.4966 (Voice)        530.752.4717 (FAX)


From: Garry Wiegand <squeezix at ithaca dot com>
Subject: Re: reporting email failures to sender?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 04:47:41 -0700

Mike wrote:
>To expand on this a bit: if I send email to a nonexistent user on our =
main, 
>campus computers, as:
>
>	gorgonzola at ucdavis dot edu
>
>then I, as the sender of the email, get notified immediately that there 
>ain't no such user.  On the other hand, if I send email to a nonexistent=
 
>user in our WorldMail domain, as:
>
>	gorgonzola at physics.ucdavis dot edu
>
>then I, as the sender of the email, don't get ANY response.  I, as 
>postmaster for that domain, DO get notified of the problem, but I don't 
>have the time to respond properly to every typo in an email address.

On failed delivery, Worldmail -either- delivers an error message to the
postmaster -or- delivers an error message to the sender. It doesn't have =
the
option of doing both -- which, I agree, would be best choice.  

In the case at hand, sounds like you should turn off sending =
undeliverable
mail to you, thus causing it to go back to the sender instead.

To do that, go to Internet Mail / Local Domains, right-click your domain
name, and select Configure / Domain. On the General tab, "Where to =
forward
undeliverable mail" should be set to "Mailbox", and E-mail address should=
 be
all blank. For non-intuitive reasons known best to the designers of
Worldmail, that combination causes the error message to be returned to =
the
sender.

Hope this solves the problem.

Garry

From: Justin Parry-Okeden <jpo at sandwichdirect dot com>
Subject: RCPT TO:<> problem
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:37:39 +1100

I have a mail client that is sending emial in the form RCPT TO: =
user at domain dot com and worldmail is regecting the email with the msg 501: =
Invalid mail address, invalid local name syntax

Any one have any ideas. It works on my Linux sendmail server, why not on =
Eudora???

JPO

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:37:17 +0100
From: Mike <mike at barlow dot net>
Subject: Is WM an open relay server ?

Hi,

Yet again, another question: All my troubles with WM (which were due to 
holes in my knowledge) seem to be gone.

But replaced with another.

Our WM server was hi-jacked by a spammer last night and has gotten us in 
deep sh£$ with our ISP (we are on a permanent connection).

Essentially we cannot restrict service to IP ranges only--we have many 
users dialling in and sending receiving email from home, office, laptop etc=
 
etc.
We cannot restrict email send/receive to local domains only.

What we can do is get our users to SMTP AUTH....but WM has none of this.
My point is that (unlike EIMS) WM has not got many options to deflect 
attack from outsiders, if your organisation demands certain parameters (as=
 
does ours).

Finally, does anyone know how I can add SMTP AUTh to WM via a third party 
application? (If there is such a thing???)

Cheers, thanks for all your help.

Mike.


From: <chris at ctay dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:42:21 -0500

I'd like to know this too...

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike [mailto:mike at barlow dot net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 9:37 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Is WM an open relay server ?


Hi,

Yet again, another question: All my troubles with WM (which were due to
holes in my knowledge) seem to be gone.

But replaced with another.

Our WM server was hi-jacked by a spammer last night and has gotten us in
deep sh£$ with our ISP (we are on a permanent connection).

Essentially we cannot restrict service to IP ranges only--we have many
users dialling in and sending receiving email from home, office, laptop etc
etc.
We cannot restrict email send/receive to local domains only.

What we can do is get our users to SMTP AUTH....but WM has none of this.
My point is that (unlike EIMS) WM has not got many options to deflect
attack from outsiders, if your organisation demands certain parameters (as
does ours).

Finally, does anyone know how I can add SMTP AUTh to WM via a third party
application? (If there is such a thing???)

Cheers, thanks for all your help.

Mike.


From: "Ian Homewood" <ianh at stanley.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:43:27 +0100

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but are all your dial in users not in
nice tidy ip ranges?  Could you set their TCP/IP to give them an ip addre=
ss
to make it more controllable?

Just to confirm.  We had the same problem and set in WorldMail the
following:

SMTP access only to local network(s) and ISP
Relay access only to local network(s) and ISP.  If your mail server is no=
t
receiving mail from the ISP to be forwarded to other domains or sub-domai=
ns
you don't need to allow them relay access either.

Sorry if this is not much help, I don't know of a 3rd party product becau=
se
we never needed to look.

Regards

Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike [mailto:mike at barlow dot net]
Sent: 30 August 2000 15:37
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Is WM an open relay server ?


Hi,

Yet again, another question: All my troubles with WM (which were due to
holes in my knowledge) seem to be gone.

But replaced with another.

Our WM server was hi-jacked by a spammer last night and has gotten us in
deep sh£$ with our ISP (we are on a permanent connection).

Essentially we cannot restrict service to IP ranges only--we have many
users dialling in and sending receiving email from home, office, laptop e=
tc
etc.
We cannot restrict email send/receive to local domains only.

What we can do is get our users to SMTP AUTH....but WM has none of this.
My point is that (unlike EIMS) WM has not got many options to deflect
attack from outsiders, if your organisation demands certain parameters (a=
s
does ours).

Finally, does anyone know how I can add SMTP AUTh to WM via a third party
application? (If there is such a thing???)

Cheers, thanks for all your help.

Mike.


Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:05:06 +0100
From: Mike <mike at barlow dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?

Hi Ian,


>Sorry if this is a stupid question, but are all your dial in users not in
>nice tidy ip ranges?  Could you set their TCP/IP to give them an ip address
>to make it more controllable?

Not coming from you, who has helped me so much !!
Unfortunately, as they all dial in via their own  (UK) ISP's they 
inevitably have a dynamic IP each and every single time they dial up.
Also, I wouldn't want to open it up (even though it seems like it can't get 
more open) to whole ISP doamins (EG Demon, Virgin, Freeserve etc etc--there 
are approx 20+ ISP's who they are using amongst them!)


>SMTP access only to local network(s) and ISP
>Relay access only to local network(s) and ISP.  If your mail server is not
>receiving mail from the ISP to be forwarded to other domains or sub-domains
>you don't need to allow them relay access either.
>
>Sorry if this is not much help, I don't know of a 3rd party product because
>we never needed to look.

I think our circumstances would make this (seemingly excellent) setup 
unworkable for our users. We definitely can't restrict to local 
domain/network only (due to mail coming in and going out from our 
geographically and IP dysfunctional users).

Looks like am gonna have to take the long walk, as far as the ISP goes :(

Thanks Ian, appreciated, as ever.

Mike.





From: <chris at ctay dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:00:33 -0500

I'm not an ISP.  All I offer is web hosting.  So my users are connecting
through their own ISP or from their office or whatever.  Therefore, I cannot
set IP address restrictions.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Homewood [mailto:ianh at stanley.co dot uk]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 9:43 AM
To: 'Mike'; 'Subscribers of WorldMail'
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?


Sorry if this is a stupid question, but are all your dial in users not in
nice tidy ip ranges?  Could you set their TCP/IP to give them an ip address
to make it more controllable?

Just to confirm.  We had the same problem and set in WorldMail the
following:

SMTP access only to local network(s) and ISP
Relay access only to local network(s) and ISP.  If your mail server is not
receiving mail from the ISP to be forwarded to other domains or sub-domains
you don't need to allow them relay access either.

Sorry if this is not much help, I don't know of a 3rd party product because
we never needed to look.

Regards

Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike [mailto:mike at barlow dot net]
Sent: 30 August 2000 15:37
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Is WM an open relay server ?


Hi,

Yet again, another question: All my troubles with WM (which were due to
holes in my knowledge) seem to be gone.

But replaced with another.

Our WM server was hi-jacked by a spammer last night and has gotten us in
deep sh£$ with our ISP (we are on a permanent connection).

Essentially we cannot restrict service to IP ranges only--we have many
users dialling in and sending receiving email from home, office, laptop etc
etc.
We cannot restrict email send/receive to local domains only.

What we can do is get our users to SMTP AUTH....but WM has none of this.
My point is that (unlike EIMS) WM has not got many options to deflect
attack from outsiders, if your organisation demands certain parameters (as
does ours).

Finally, does anyone know how I can add SMTP AUTh to WM via a third party
application? (If there is such a thing???)

Cheers, thanks for all your help.

Mike.


Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:09:45 +0100
From: John Aldridge <john.aldridge at informatix.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?

At 16:05 30/08/00 +0100, Mike wrote:
>Hi Ian,
>
>>Sorry if this is a stupid question, but are all your dial in users not in
>>nice tidy ip ranges?  Could you set their TCP/IP to give them an ip address
>>to make it more controllable?
>
>Not coming from you, who has helped me so much !!
>Unfortunately, as they all dial in via their own  (UK) ISP's they 
>inevitably have a dynamic IP each and every single time they dial up.

If they are using their own ISPs, why do they need access to your WM server 
at all?  Why don't they use the SMTP server provided by their ISP?
--
Cheers,
John


From: <chris at ctay dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:23:27 -0500

Some of their IPS's SMTP servers use email address authentication.  This
requires them to set their email address to the email address from their ISP
instead of the email address for their domain name on my server.  The
recipient then sees the wrong email address.  This is a minor inconvenience
but it is a problem.  My customer perceives that the value of having a
domain name is diminished when they have to use someone else's SMTP server.

I'm not complaining but I think it is absolutely essential that WM
incorporates additional anti-spamming features in their next version
(whenever that may be).

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: John Aldridge [mailto:john.aldridge at informatix.co dot uk]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 10:10 AM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?


At 16:05 30/08/00 +0100, Mike wrote:
>Hi Ian,
>
>>Sorry if this is a stupid question, but are all your dial in users not in
>>nice tidy ip ranges?  Could you set their TCP/IP to give them an ip
address
>>to make it more controllable?
>
>Not coming from you, who has helped me so much !!
>Unfortunately, as they all dial in via their own  (UK) ISP's they
>inevitably have a dynamic IP each and every single time they dial up.

If they are using their own ISPs, why do they need access to your WM server
at all?  Why don't they use the SMTP server provided by their ISP?
--
Cheers,
John


Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:37:59 +0100
From: Mike <mike at barlow dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?

Hi,




>If they are using their own ISPs, why do they need access to your WM 
>server at all?  Why don't they use the SMTP server provided by their ISP?

It smacks of unprofessionalism, mainly (Headers showing all sorts of IP 
ranges/ISP details) and we wanted to do all the services, in house. Hence 
us paying such a lot for our bandwidth.
I do not want our email going out with a varying amount of ISP's headers/IP 
translations etc. That seems reasonable to me, after paying quite a lot of 
money!

Cheers, and thanks,

Mike.


Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:16:00 -0700
From:  Scott.Menke at wellpoint dot com
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?

I think someone else mentioned this...but here's my take:

All of my remote users MUST use webmail to access their WM account. I use a
product called Mailman which is made by Endymion (free to non-profits, about
$250 otherwise). There are many, many other products out there. Most you can
fully customize which is nice for your users.

The webmail script runs at our ISP where we host our web site...meaning the
SMTP request comes from their server (a single IP address, always). I know
webmail is not as nice as a full email client, but once the user understands
why you are requiring it they should be just fine with the decision. BTW,
webmail scripts can support IMAP...so if you configure the user account to
keep messages on the WM server, they can get their messages anywhere and file
them as they please.

Scott Menke
805-480-8366

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	mike at barlow dot net
Sent:	Wednesday, August 30, 2000 8:02 AM
To:	worldmail at lists.pensive dot org
Subject:	RE: Is WM an open relay server ?

Hi Ian,


>Sorry if this is a stupid question, but are all your dial in users not in
>nice tidy ip ranges?  Could you set their TCP/IP to give them an ip address
>to make it more controllable?

Not coming from you, who has helped me so much !!
Unfortunately, as they all dial in via their own  (UK) ISP's they
inevitably have a dynamic IP each and every single time they dial up.
Also, I wouldn't want to open it up (even though it seems like it can't get
more open) to whole ISP doamins (EG Demon, Virgin, Freeserve etc etc--there
are approx 20+ ISP's who they are using amongst them!)


>SMTP access only to local network(s) and ISP
>Relay access only to local network(s) and ISP.  If your mail server is not
>receiving mail from the ISP to be forwarded to other domains or sub-domains
>you don't need to allow them relay access either.
>
>Sorry if this is not much help, I don't know of a 3rd party product because
>we never needed to look.

I think our circumstances would make this (seemingly excellent) setup
unworkable for our users. We definitely can't restrict to local
domain/network only (due to mail coming in and going out from our
geographically and IP dysfunctional users).

Looks like am gonna have to take the long walk, as far as the ISP goes :(

Thanks Ian, appreciated, as ever.

Mike.






Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:45:39 -0400
From: Greg Bullough <gwb at outofchaos dot com>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?

At 04:37 PM 8/30/00 +0100, Mike wrote:
>Hi,
>
>
>
>
>>If they are using their own ISPs, why do they need access to your WM 
>>server at all?  Why don't they use the SMTP server provided by their ISP?
>
>It smacks of unprofessionalism, mainly (Headers showing all sorts of IP 
>ranges/ISP details) and we wanted to do all the services, in house. Hence 
>us paying such a lot for our bandwidth.

No, it doesn't. All you have to do is use Eudora for an e-mail client, and set
your 'From:' to be 'whoever at yourdomain dot com'

Yes, if someone wants to dig around in the detailed headers, they can figure
out that the machine from which they got the mail wasn't your personal
private server. Again, that takes more digging than most people ever do.
And nobody cares. So long as the From: shows your domain you look fine.

What *IS* unprofessional is sitting out there with an open relay.

Greg


Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:07:19 +0100
From: Mike <mike at barlow dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?

Hi,



>What *IS* unprofessional is sitting out there with an open relay.


Is right. I admit that WM is not the product to be used in the circs I 
described, expecting the results I required. Let's be honest here.

And all the workarounds (as that's all they are) don't come near to making 
WM a complete solution, so another professional option (with OR defences) 
is on the cards.

Thanks, take care,

Mike.



From: "Philip K. Dunn" <pkdunn at hoptechno dot com>
Subject: Relay and reply anomoly
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:44:09 -0500

I have a situation where I provide WM access to 8 IP addresses.

If I set up security to accept messages relays from only those addresses,
all works fine except when replying to email (using OE client) the sender
(from one of these IP addresses) gets a bounced message saying relaying not
allowed. Yet simply sending to the reply address works fine.

Our workaround has been to use other smtp servers (the respective ISPs)
which is not optimum because some are very slow.

So, question: why would a relay bounce occur on a reply and not on an
originating message?

Phil Dunn
http://www.ezweddingplanner.com
http://www.hoptechno.com


From: <chris at ctay dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:32:19 -0500

I believe it would be unprofessional to require that all my email users use
the Eudora email client.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Bullough [mailto:gwb at outofchaos dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 11:46 AM
To: Mike; Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?


At 04:37 PM 8/30/00 +0100, Mike wrote:
>Hi,
>
>
>
>
>>If they are using their own ISPs, why do they need access to your WM
>>server at all?  Why don't they use the SMTP server provided by their ISP?
>
>It smacks of unprofessionalism, mainly (Headers showing all sorts of IP
>ranges/ISP details) and we wanted to do all the services, in house. Hence
>us paying such a lot for our bandwidth.

No, it doesn't. All you have to do is use Eudora for an e-mail client, and
set
your 'From:' to be 'whoever at yourdomain dot com'

Yes, if someone wants to dig around in the detailed headers, they can figure
out that the machine from which they got the mail wasn't your personal
private server. Again, that takes more digging than most people ever do.
And nobody cares. So long as the From: shows your domain you look fine.

What *IS* unprofessional is sitting out there with an open relay.

Greg


Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:52:02 -0400
From: Greg Bullough <gwb at outofchaos dot com>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?

At 01:32 PM 8/30/00 -0500, chris at ctay dot net wrote:
>I believe it would be unprofessional to require that all my email users use
>the Eudora email client.

Sigh.

Then use Netscape. Or Eudora. Or even, god help you, the virus-magnets
Outlook or Exchange. All of them let you set the From: field via a default,
most let you assume 'personas' so that you can be you at work in one
case and you at work in another.

There is just no reason to get all hung up on having your remote users use
a particular SMTP server that is more distant than the one belonging to the
ISP to which they've logged on. That's not how internet mail works, or is
supposed to work.

The header you are trying to control, the From: header is set by THE CLIENT AND
NOT THE SERVER. Fix it on the client side and get on with your life.

Greg


From: <chris at ctay dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:02:41 -0500

I'm not trying to tire you out but we have tried various options with
Outlook.  When we set the from field the ISP's SMTP server rejects the
message because that email address does not exist on their server.  I wish
it were as simple as you suggest.  Most ISP's don't check this from field
but some do which is the cause of my frustration.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Bullough [mailto:gwb at outofchaos dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 1:52 PM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?


At 01:32 PM 8/30/00 -0500, chris at ctay dot net wrote:
>I believe it would be unprofessional to require that all my email users use
>the Eudora email client.

Sigh.

Then use Netscape. Or Eudora. Or even, god help you, the virus-magnets
Outlook or Exchange. All of them let you set the From: field via a default,
most let you assume 'personas' so that you can be you at work in one
case and you at work in another.

There is just no reason to get all hung up on having your remote users use
a particular SMTP server that is more distant than the one belonging to the
ISP to which they've logged on. That's not how internet mail works, or is
supposed to work.

The header you are trying to control, the From: header is set by THE CLIENT
AND
NOT THE SERVER. Fix it on the client side and get on with your life.

Greg


Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:10:09 -0400
From: Greg Bullough <gwb at outofchaos dot com>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?

Then get a different ISP. Checking the From: field in attempt
to catch relays is just ignorant Making rules about the From:
field in their customers' e-mail is not friendly to customers who
may want to direct replies elsewhere or answer work e-mail at
home.

As I said, From: is set by the client, and can as easily be spoofed.

The ISP needs to check the connecting IP address and make
sure it is inside there network. That is both necessary and sufficient
to determine if it's a relay attempt. Sounds like someone at
the ISP who is clueless has written a useless filter.

Greg

At 02:02 PM 8/30/00 -0500, chris at ctay dot net wrote:
>I'm not trying to tire you out but we have tried various options with
>Outlook.  When we set the from field the ISP's SMTP server rejects the
>message because that email address does not exist on their server.


From: "Darren Farmer" <farmerd at adspower dot com>
Subject: Re: Is WM an open relay server ?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:15:20 -0500

OK, I'll take this one...


If the ISP's server is validating your email address, set the "reply-to"
field to your company's email address and actual email address as the ISP's
domain (actual local email address).

This isn't rocket science, you know, and it is that simple.

Sorry I have to do this...        [plonk]

-DF


----- Original Message -----
From: <chris at ctay dot net>
To: "Greg Bullough" <gwb at outofchaos dot com>; "Subscribers of WorldMail"
<worldmail at lists.pensive dot org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 2:02 PM
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?


> I'm not trying to tire you out but we have tried various options with
> Outlook.  When we set the from field the ISP's SMTP server rejects the
> message because that email address does not exist on their server.  I wish
> it were as simple as you suggest.  Most ISP's don't check this from field
> but some do which is the cause of my frustration.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Bullough [mailto:gwb at outofchaos dot com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 1:52 PM
> To: Subscribers of WorldMail
> Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
>
>
> At 01:32 PM 8/30/00 -0500, chris at ctay dot net wrote:
> >I believe it would be unprofessional to require that all my email users
use
> >the Eudora email client.
>
> Sigh.
>
> Then use Netscape. Or Eudora. Or even, god help you, the virus-magnets
> Outlook or Exchange. All of them let you set the From: field via a
default,
> most let you assume 'personas' so that you can be you at work in one
> case and you at work in another.
>
> There is just no reason to get all hung up on having your remote users use
> a particular SMTP server that is more distant than the one belonging to
the
> ISP to which they've logged on. That's not how internet mail works, or is
> supposed to work.
>
> The header you are trying to control, the From: header is set by THE
CLIENT
> AND
> NOT THE SERVER. Fix it on the client side and get on with your life.
>
> Greg
>


From: <chris at ctay dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:23:02 -0500

Maybe they are "ignorant"...

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Bullough [mailto:gwb at outofchaos dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 2:10 PM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?


Then get a different ISP. Checking the From: field in attempt
to catch relays is just ignorant Making rules about the From:
field in their customers' e-mail is not friendly to customers who
may want to direct replies elsewhere or answer work e-mail at
home.

As I said, From: is set by the client, and can as easily be spoofed.

The ISP needs to check the connecting IP address and make
sure it is inside there network. That is both necessary and sufficient
to determine if it's a relay attempt. Sounds like someone at
the ISP who is clueless has written a useless filter.

Greg

At 02:02 PM 8/30/00 -0500, chris at ctay dot net wrote:
>I'm not trying to tire you out but we have tried various options with
>Outlook.  When we set the from field the ISP's SMTP server rejects the
>message because that email address does not exist on their server.


From: <chris at ctay dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 14:25:02 -0500

This is a good solution.  We tried this.  It is sufficient to avoid the
problem with users that want to reply to a message.  However, there is still
the unprofessionalism of a different email address appearing in the "from"
field than the one you want the recipient to see.

Thanks for helping with the 'conversation'.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Farmer [mailto:farmerd at adspower dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 2:15 PM
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: Re: Is WM an open relay server ?


OK, I'll take this one...


If the ISP's server is validating your email address, set the "reply-to"
field to your company's email address and actual email address as the ISP's
domain (actual local email address).

This isn't rocket science, you know, and it is that simple.

Sorry I have to do this...        [plonk]

-DF


----- Original Message -----
From: <chris at ctay dot net>
To: "Greg Bullough" <gwb at outofchaos dot com>; "Subscribers of WorldMail"
<worldmail at lists.pensive dot org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 2:02 PM
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?


> I'm not trying to tire you out but we have tried various options with
> Outlook.  When we set the from field the ISP's SMTP server rejects the
> message because that email address does not exist on their server.  I wish
> it were as simple as you suggest.  Most ISP's don't check this from field
> but some do which is the cause of my frustration.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Bullough [mailto:gwb at outofchaos dot com]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 1:52 PM
> To: Subscribers of WorldMail
> Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?
>
>
> At 01:32 PM 8/30/00 -0500, chris at ctay dot net wrote:
> >I believe it would be unprofessional to require that all my email users
use
> >the Eudora email client.
>
> Sigh.
>
> Then use Netscape. Or Eudora. Or even, god help you, the virus-magnets
> Outlook or Exchange. All of them let you set the From: field via a
default,
> most let you assume 'personas' so that you can be you at work in one
> case and you at work in another.
>
> There is just no reason to get all hung up on having your remote users use
> a particular SMTP server that is more distant than the one belonging to
the
> ISP to which they've logged on. That's not how internet mail works, or is
> supposed to work.
>
> The header you are trying to control, the From: header is set by THE
CLIENT
> AND
> NOT THE SERVER. Fix it on the client side and get on with your life.
>
> Greg
>


Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:22:38 +0100
From: Mike <mike at barlow dot net>
Subject: RE: Is WM an open relay server ?

  It seems to me that WM will be a far better product when SMTP AUTH is 
added, than it is without.

I look forward to when it is added, and am sure many others will, 
also--Eudora is regraded as being an innovator , in this neck of the woods.


Mike.


From: "Gregory J. Hickel" <ghickel at crowderscoggins dot com>
Subject: Re: Is WM an open relay server ?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:27:55 -0500


>   It seems to me that WM will be a far better product when SMTP AUTH is
> added, than it is without.

Concerning additions and new versions of Worldmail, has anybody heard
anything new from Eudora on a timetable for the next version?  I know they
had basically put it on the back burner at one point.  They did just
recently release a new version of their Mac e-mail server software so maybe
this is a good sign???  If no one seems to know anything, maybe we as a
group should start making our presence and desire for a new version known to
the powers that be at Eudora.  Thoughts?

Greg Hickel
ghickel at crowderscoggins dot com




Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 00:11:50 -0400
From: Mark and Dori Paster <paster at tidalwave dot net>
Subject: Re: Is WM an open relay server ?

How does one leave this list?  I joined it some time ago and now I want to get
off the list but I can't figure out the process to leave the list.  Can someone
please enlighten me?  Thanks.



"Gregory J. Hickel" wrote:

> >   It seems to me that WM will be a far better product when SMTP AUTH is
> > added, than it is without.
>
> Concerning additions and new versions of Worldmail, has anybody heard
> anything new from Eudora on a timetable for the next version?  I know they
> had basically put it on the back burner at one point.  They did just
> recently release a new version of their Mac e-mail server software so maybe
> this is a good sign???  If no one seems to know anything, maybe we as a
> group should start making our presence and desire for a new version known to
> the powers that be at Eudora.  Thoughts?
>
> Greg Hickel
> ghickel at crowderscoggins dot com


From: "Darren Farmer" <farmerd at adspower dot com>
Subject: Instructions for removal from list...
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 07:59:40 -0500

Should you ever wish to unsubscribe, send the word "unsubscribe"
(without the quotes) to <worldmail-request at lists.pensive dot org>.





From: "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: RCPT TO:<> problem
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:20:09 +0100

Shouldn't it be
RCPT TO:<user at domain dot com>
i.e. within angled brackets

Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Parry-Okeden [mailto:jpo at sandwichdirect dot com]
Sent: 30 August 2000 13:38
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RCPT TO:<> problem


I have a mail client that is sending emial in the form RCPT TO:
user at domain dot com and worldmail is regecting the email with the msg 501:
Invalid mail address, invalid local name syntax

Any one have any ideas. It works on my Linux sendmail server, why not on
Eudora???

JPO


From: Justin Parry-Okeden <jpo at sandwichdirect dot com>
Subject: RE: RCPT TO:<> problem
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:55:26 +1100

Yes, you are right it SHOULD be in angled brackets, but this mail client is not using the angled brackets.

Is there any way to configure Worldmail to accept the msg with out the angled brackets.

JPO

-----Original Message-----
From:	Paul Webster [SMTP:paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk]
Sent:	Friday, 1 September 2000 4:20
To:	Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject:	RE: RCPT TO:<> problem

Shouldn't it be
RCPT TO:<user at domain dot com>
i.e. within angled brackets

Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Parry-Okeden [mailto:jpo at sandwichdirect dot com]
Sent: 30 August 2000 13:38
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RCPT TO:<> problem


I have a mail client that is sending emial in the form RCPT TO:
user at domain dot com and worldmail is regecting the email with the msg 501:
Invalid mail address, invalid local name syntax

Any one have any ideas. It works on my Linux sendmail server, why not on
Eudora???

JPO


From: "Paul Webster" <paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: RCPT TO:<> problem
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 10:40:20 +0100

Not that I can see.
You could try setting AllowUnqualifiedGarbage in registry - but I suspect
that it will not enable this (it was really for people that did not put the
@domain.com part in the mail address.

Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Parry-Okeden [mailto:jpo at sandwichdirect dot com]
Sent: 31 August 2000 22:55
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RE: RCPT TO:<> problem


Yes, you are right it SHOULD be in angled brackets, but this mail client is
not using the angled brackets.

Is there any way to configure Worldmail to accept the msg with out the
angled brackets.

JPO

-----Original Message-----
From:	Paul Webster [SMTP:paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk]
Sent:	Friday, 1 September 2000 4:20
To:	Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject:	RE: RCPT TO:<> problem

Shouldn't it be
RCPT TO:<user at domain dot com>
i.e. within angled brackets

Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Parry-Okeden [mailto:jpo at sandwichdirect dot com]
Sent: 30 August 2000 13:38
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: RCPT TO:<> problem


I have a mail client that is sending emial in the form RCPT TO:
user at domain dot com and worldmail is regecting the email with the msg 501:
Invalid mail address, invalid local name syntax

Any one have any ideas. It works on my Linux sendmail server, why not on
Eudora???

JPO



Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 20:36:53 +0100
From: Mark Berry <mark at supportingit.co dot uk>
Subject: Licences

Hi, how does the license thing work...?

I bought a 10 user server with a 25 user upgrade pack.....

Here is what my receipt from the web vendor says :

for 10 license(s) of the product: Eudora WorldMail Server 2.0.
for 25 license(s) of the product: Eudora WorldMail Server 2.0 - 25 user add-on.

Which should give me 35 users (my maths is not brilliant).

I install with the first code, and add the second code after installation. 
Worldmail says I have 25 users BASE, option C........

Following the instructions I did strip the 000- from the beginning of the 
serial number when adding the 25 users.

Hmmmmmmm.


Cheers, Mark.

--

This email, its content and any files transmitted with it are intended 
solely for the addressee(s) and may be legally privileged and/or 
confidential. Access by any other party is unauthorised without the express 
written permission of the sender. If you have received this email in error 
you may not copy or use the contents, attachments or information in any 
way. Please contact the sender via email return.
Internet communications are not secure unless protected using strong 
cryptography. This email has been prepared using information believed by 
the author to be reliable and accurate, but Supporting I.T. makes no 
warranty as to accuracy or completeness. In particular Supporting I.T. does 
not accept responsibility for changes made to this email after it was sent. 
Any opinions expressed in this document are those of the author and do not 
necessarily reflect the opinions of Supporting I.T. or its affiliates.


Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 17:14:14 -0700
From: William Hultman <whultman at home dot com>
Subject: RE: RCPT TO:<> problem

Try configuring the client with the angle brackets included in the email 
address. If it will accept it that way, that should solve the problem. Paul 
is right -- the AllowUnqualifiedGarbage registry entry is so that you can 
use user instead of user@domain for the recipient address.

Bill

At 10:40 AM 9/2/00 +0100, Paul Webster wrote:
>Not that I can see.
>You could try setting AllowUnqualifiedGarbage in registry - but I suspect
>that it will not enable this (it was really for people that did not put the
>@domain.com part in the mail address.
>
>Paul
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Justin Parry-Okeden [mailto:jpo at sandwichdirect dot com]
>Sent: 31 August 2000 22:55
>To: Subscribers of WorldMail
>Subject: RE: RCPT TO:<> problem
>
>
>Yes, you are right it SHOULD be in angled brackets, but this mail client is
>not using the angled brackets.
>
>Is there any way to configure Worldmail to accept the msg with out the
>angled brackets.
>
>JPO
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:   Paul Webster [SMTP:paul at spidersweb.freeserve.co dot uk]
>Sent:   Friday, 1 September 2000 4:20
>To:     Subscribers of WorldMail
>Subject:        RE: RCPT TO:<> problem
>
>Shouldn't it be
>RCPT TO:<user at domain dot com>
>i.e. within angled brackets
>
>Paul
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Justin Parry-Okeden [mailto:jpo at sandwichdirect dot com]
>Sent: 30 August 2000 13:38
>To: Subscribers of WorldMail
>Subject: RCPT TO:<> problem
>
>
>I have a mail client that is sending emial in the form RCPT TO:
>user at domain dot com and worldmail is regecting the email with the msg 501:
>Invalid mail address, invalid local name syntax
>
>Any one have any ideas. It works on my Linux sendmail server, why not on
>Eudora???
>
>JPO


William B. Hultman
<<mailto:whultman at home dot com>whultman@home.<whultman at home dot com>com>
"I am not responsible for anything contained in this message.
It appears that my cats have learned to type."


----------
"Only wimps use tape backup: real men just upload their important stuff on 
FTP, and let the rest of  the world mirror it..." 


From: "John Hughes" <jhughes at sportsoftgolf dot com>
Subject: Trying to Subscribe new addresses to Mailing List
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 17:25:00 -0400

I have tried to follow the directions to subscribe new members to various
Mailing Lists we host on Worldmail and have had no luck.

The syntax I am using is as follows:
subscribe test xxx at email dot com
subscribe tes1 yyy at email dot com

I've tried it with and without brackets and end up having to cut/paste
addresses directly into the list and it can become tedious if I have a lot
to add.  I tried adding additional spaces between commands, but still no
luck. Additionally, I tried only adding one new member @ a time and still
same error message as when adding multiple addresses.

It doesn't matter what syntax I use because I receive the error message
"Incorrect Command Syntax"

There is a Robot List Agent created.  I am Email Admin/PostMaster and Domain
Admin, so permissions are not an issue.  The List Agent is set to accept
submissions from only me.

Any help would be appreciated.

John A. Hughes
e jhughes at sportsoftgolf dot com



Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 15:45:41 -0700
From: William Hultman <whultman at home dot com>
Subject: Re: Trying to Subscribe new addresses to Mailing List

I see that you are using Outlook as your email client. Make sure that 
Outlook is set to send plain text to that address. The list robot does not 
like RTF/HTML and will choke on it (as will a lot of other list servers).

Bill

At 05:25 PM 9/5/00 -0400, John Hughes wrote:
>I have tried to follow the directions to subscribe new members to various
>Mailing Lists we host on Worldmail and have had no luck.
>
>The syntax I am using is as follows:
>subscribe test xxx at email dot com
>subscribe tes1 yyy at email dot com
>
>I've tried it with and without brackets and end up having to cut/paste
>addresses directly into the list and it can become tedious if I have a lot
>to add.  I tried adding additional spaces between commands, but still no
>luck. Additionally, I tried only adding one new member @ a time and still
>same error message as when adding multiple addresses.
>
>It doesn't matter what syntax I use because I receive the error message
>"Incorrect Command Syntax"
>
>There is a Robot List Agent created.  I am Email Admin/PostMaster and Domain
>Admin, so permissions are not an issue.  The List Agent is set to accept
>submissions from only me.
>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
>John A. Hughes
>e jhughes at sportsoftgolf dot com


Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:12:02 +0100
From: Mark Berry <mark at supportingit.co dot uk>
Subject: Bouncing Mail.

I have worldmail set up with three domains, getting mail chucked at it via 
a batch file which uses rasdial and finger.
My client has three offices. I have set up the two branch offices to pick 
up email from the ISP I am using, I do not want the offices to dial into 
the head office to collect mail.

Now, the problem.
I had set up a number of aliases pointing to the mail account on the ISP.
ie, mberry -> mberry at redhotant.co dot uk in the supportingit.co.uk domain.

Unfortunately when I send an email to mberry at supportingit.co dot uk it is 
bounced back with a no recipent error.
I have since tried it with a "Send To", which gets around the problem for 
the time being, but only if the anything@ bit is the same at the server end 
as the ISP.

This can be overcome by using aliases... ie, mberry -> mark2556 -> 
mark2556 at redhotant.co dot uk on the ISP end I think.

The problem seems to be, there must be a valid user on the worldmail server 
itself, not just an alias to anther system.

Is there anther way around this?

Also, is there a way to get a copy of all email flowing through the server 
sent to an email address (similar to MDaemon's archive feature which I am 
loath to leave)?


Cheers, Mark.

--

This email, its content and any files transmitted with it are intended 
solely for the addressee(s) and may be legally privileged and/or 
confidential. Access by any other party is unauthorised without the express 
written permission of the sender. If you have received this email in error 
you may not copy or use the contents, attachments or information in any 
way. Please contact the sender via email return.
Internet communications are not secure unless protected using strong 
cryptography. This email has been prepared using information believed by 
the author to be reliable and accurate, but Supporting I.T. makes no 
warranty as to accuracy or completeness. In particular Supporting I.T. does 
not accept responsibility for changes made to this email after it was sent. 
Any opinions expressed in this document are those of the author and do not 
necessarily reflect the opinions of Supporting I.T. or its affiliates.


Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:19:41 -0700
From: Devin Campbell <dcampbell at tpc dot org>
Subject: routing server error

I'm getting a lot of routing server errors. It seems to pop up after the 
server has been running for a while and goes away when I restart the 
service. I've been running the server for about a year with no problems, 
then this started in the last couple of weeks. The bounced messages look 
like this:
address at sgi dot com; Action: Failed; Status: 5.4.3 (routing server failure)

We have one mailing list with members of several large companies (Oracle, 
Microsoft, IBM, etc.)  This is happening randomly (as far as I can 
tell).  Some domains deliver with no problems, others get this error. When 
I try to do a routing check through Worldmail it says the domain does not 
exist, but I can ping it from the command line with no problems.

Any suggestions on where to look for a source of this problem would be 
greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Devin


From: "Darren Farmer" <farmerd at adspower dot com>
Subject: Re: routing server error
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:37:45 -0500

I encountered the same problem within the first month of installation, I
cleared the local DNS cache and it hasn't happened again since.

-Darren

----- Original Message -----
From: "Devin Campbell" <dcampbell at tpc dot org>
To: "Subscribers of WorldMail" <worldmail at lists.pensive dot org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 2:19 PM
Subject: routing server error


> I'm getting a lot of routing server errors. It seems to pop up after the
> server has been running for a while and goes away when I restart the
> service. I've been running the server for about a year with no problems,
> then this started in the last couple of weeks. The bounced messages look
> like this:
> address at sgi dot com; Action: Failed; Status: 5.4.3 (routing server failure)
>
> We have one mailing list with members of several large companies (Oracle,
> Microsoft, IBM, etc.)  This is happening randomly (as far as I can
> tell).  Some domains deliver with no problems, others get this error. When
> I try to do a routing check through Worldmail it says the domain does not
> exist, but I can ping it from the command line with no problems.
>
> Any suggestions on where to look for a source of this problem would be
> greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> Devin
>


Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:57:24 +1100
From: Lloyd Sharp <lsharp at ozemail.com dot au>
Subject: worldmail2 and Win2000 server

Hi - I Hope someone can help me here.

I have just updated an NT 4 server to Win2000 server.
Worldmail runs ok except that when I log onto the management centre 
it crashes when I select the 'manage' menu with a left click or even 
pass the cursor over the 'manage' menu. No error message - it just 
hangs.
It runs fine again after restarting the server.

Any idea what would be causing this?

I can right click the mail domains in the management centre to add users etc.

I am having no problems with the DNS

also possibly related - after reading the list archives...
I too am having a problem with active directory starting up. Is there 
a fix for this problem - running active directory as a primary domain 
controller and worldmail at the same time?

thanks
-- 
_________________
Lloyd Sharp - lsharp at ozemail.com dot au - www.chickenfish.cc - www.iris.fm
Interactive Design Group - www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au - CDROMs & 
Web development
www.anzacsite.gov.au - www.teachingheritage.nsw.edu.au
space at artspace.org dot au - www.artspace.org.au - email admin & tech
__________________

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:12:31 -0600
From: Harry McIntosh <Harry.McIntosh at cdlearning dot com>
Subject: Re: worldmail2 and Win2000 server

Regarding the "manage" menu, I think the trick is just never to move your 
mouse over the menu.  I believe you can get to all the functions on that 
menu other ways, so there is no need to use it.

Regarding Active Directory hanging, I had the same problem.  It appeared to 
be a problem with Active Directory and Worldmail both wanting to offer LDAP 
services on the same port.  I got around it by changing Worldmail to a 
different port.  You can do that by right-clicking on "Internet Directory" 
(which you'll find under "Directory Services" in the left-hand panel of the 
WorldMail Management Center), and picking "Configure".  Change the port you 
see to something else (I used 441).

At 06:57 AM 9/13/00, you wrote:
>Hi - I Hope someone can help me here.
>
>I have just updated an NT 4 server to Win2000 server.
>Worldmail runs ok except that when I log onto the management centre it 
>crashes when I select the 'manage' menu with a left click or even pass the 
>cursor over the 'manage' menu. No error message - it just hangs.
>It runs fine again after restarting the server.
>
>Any idea what would be causing this?
>
>I can right click the mail domains in the management centre to add users etc.
>
>I am having no problems with the DNS
>
>also possibly related - after reading the list archives...
>I too am having a problem with active directory starting up. Is there a 
>fix for this problem - running active directory as a primary domain 
>controller and worldmail at the same time?
>
>thanks
>--
>_________________
>Lloyd Sharp - lsharp at ozemail.com dot au - www.chickenfish.cc - www.iris.fm
>Interactive Design Group - www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au - CDROMs & Web 
>development
>www.anzacsite.gov.au - www.teachingheritage.nsw.edu.au
>space at artspace.org dot au - www.artspace.org.au - email admin & tech
>__________________


From: Mike Weller <test3 at gordon.chem.wayne dot edu>
Subject: mail loop
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:47:28 -0500 (CST)

I apologize if this question has been asked before.

We're running worldmail v2 and have open-relays closed to prevent
spamming. unfortunately, we lose the ability to forward email with the
"add->send to..."  feature. Mail will bounce back with "554
Transaction failed, possible message loop detected" to whoever sends
email to an address that is forwarded (whether it's from a local or
remote sender). 

It seems to think that it's a remote spammer. forwards should be
exempt from checking to see if that host is allowed to relay. 

Thanks in advance,

Mike

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:52:56 -0700
From: William Hultman <whultman at home dot com>
Subject: Re: mail loop

At 05:47 PM 9/20/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I apologize if this question has been asked before.
>
>We're running worldmail v2 and have open-relays closed to prevent
>spamming. unfortunately, we lose the ability to forward email with the
>"add->send to..."  feature. Mail will bounce back with "554
>Transaction failed, possible message loop detected" to whoever sends
>email to an address that is forwarded (whether it's from a local or
>remote sender).
>
>It seems to think that it's a remote spammer. forwards should be
>exempt from checking to see if that host is allowed to relay.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Mike

    A send-to user enables you to host the same domain on two or more 
servers by telling WorldMail where the user's message store account is 
actually located.

    For example, usera is located in Los Angeles and his mail server is 
la.eudora.com. Userb is located in San Diego and his mail server is 
sd.eudora.com. However, both servers "own" the eudora.com domain. The MX 
record for eudora.com points to sd.eudora.com as the primary mail 
exchanger. However, I want to send a message to usera at eudora dot com, but his 
mail server is actually la.eudora.com. So what we need to do is set up a 
send-to user telling sd.eudora.com to send any messages received for usera 
to la.eudora.com instead of bouncing them for a non-existent user. Then on 
la.eudora.com, we would have the actual message store user, which would be 
able to receive and deliver the message.

    The complicated part is that in order to use la.eudora.com to send a 
message to userb, we need to also have a send-to on la.eudora.com pointing 
to sd.eudora.com. That way, when WorldMail attempts to deliver the message 
to userb, instead of trying to deliver it locally, the send-to tells it to 
send the message to sd.eudora.com instead.

    The long and the short of it is that both users must exist on each 
machine, but only one of them will be a message store user; the other 
machine will have a send-to.

    As for the mail loop error, if the user does not exist on the server 
that you are trying to send the message to with the send-to, the second 
server will then try and deliver the message to the primary MX (which in 
this case is the same server it received the message from to begin with) 
and this is what is creating the mail loop. If SMTP servers did not have 
some kind of loop detection mechanism, they could spend an eternity 
ping-ponging this message back and forth.



William B. Hultman
<<mailto:whultman at home dot com>whultman@home.<whultman at home dot com>com>
"I am not responsible for anything contained in this message.
It appears that my cats have learned to type."


----------
"Only wimps use tape backup: real men just upload their important stuff on 
FTP, and let the rest of  the world mirror it..." 


From: "Ian Homewood" <ianh at stanley.co dot uk>
Subject: RE: mail loop
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:31:25 +0100

Have you tried entering your local network address range into the list of
allowed relay hosts?

Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Weller [mailto:test3 at gordon.chem.wayne dot edu]
Sent: 20 September 2000 23:47
To: Subscribers of WorldMail
Subject: mail loop


I apologize if this question has been asked before.

We're running worldmail v2 and have open-relays closed to prevent
spamming. unfortunately, we lose the ability to forward email with the
"add->send to..."  feature. Mail will bounce back with "554
Transaction failed, possible message loop detected" to whoever sends
email to an address that is forwarded (whether it's from a local or
remote sender).

It seems to think that it's a remote spammer. forwards should be
exempt from checking to see if that host is allowed to relay.

Thanks in advance,

Mike


From: Mike Weller <test3 at gordon.chem.wayne dot edu>
Subject: Re: mail loop
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:57:44 -0500 (CST)

> At 05:47 PM 9/20/00 -0500, you wrote:
> >I apologize if this question has been asked before.
> >
> >We're running worldmail v2 and have open-relays closed to prevent
> >spamming. unfortunately, we lose the ability to forward email with the
> >"add->send to..."  feature. Mail will bounce back with "554
> >Transaction failed, possible message loop detected" to whoever sends
> >email to an address that is forwarded (whether it's from a local or
> >remote sender).
> >
> >It seems to think that it's a remote spammer. forwards should be
> >exempt from checking to see if that host is allowed to relay.
> >
> >Thanks in advance,
> >
> >Mike
> 
>     A send-to user enables you to host the same domain on two or more 
> servers by telling WorldMail where the user's message store account is 
> actually located.

Thanks for the explanation.  If "send-to" is only intended for different
hosting names, then the better question would be "how do we forward
all e-mails for an ex-employee to lets say, somewhere@hotmail dot com?"

I normally administer unix machines, and would either leave it up
to the user to put in a .forward in their home directory, or
I would add this to their /etc/aliases file.

I'll answer Ian's question here too:
> Have you tried entering your local network address range into the list of
> allowed relay hosts?
>
> Ian

Under SMTP server, everything's blank.
Under Message Relaying, the only thing in "allow access only to these 
addresses" is our network # and subnet mask.
ie, in the form a.b.c.0/255.255.255.0

our mail server's IP is in the form a.b.c.d, so the information appears
to be correct.  We can send email out locally and remotely just fine.
It's just the forwarding that doesn't work.

any suggestions?  thanks

-Mike

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:53:32 -0400
From: Seymour Joseph <sjoseph at bciu.k12.pa dot us>
Subject: Re: mail loop

To answer the question: 
> "how do we forward all e-mails for an ex-employee to lets say, 
>   somewhere@hotmail dot com?"

Browse down to find the ex-employee's old entry in their domain.  Delete
it. Then go to the MANAGE menu select ADD then move over and select ALIAS...

The alias entry will ask you what to call their entry in your domain,
use the same name they used to have. In the second box it will prompt
you for a real address to forward to.  It creates an entry in your
worldmail domain that is a "hollow head" person.  They have a name entry
in your domain, but no mailbox.  Alias entries do not count against your
number of available entries.

Now when anyone sends mail to that user's old address it gets
automatically forwarded to the alias address.

You can use this service to create aliases for common addresses such as
"postmaster" "personnel" "webmaster" and use the alias feature to point
these addresses to a specific individual's mailbox without exposing that
individual's address to the world.

Example:  You could put up a web page that lets people send comments to
an address called "comments@yourdomain dot com"   You can then go to
Worldmail and create an alias named "comments" and point it to the inbox
of the person who is actually handling those comments.

Seymour

From: Mike Weller <test3 at gordon.chem.wayne dot edu>
Subject: Re: mail loop
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:01:45 -0500 (CST)

Thanks.  Actually, now that you mention it - I did try both..
"Send to..." and "Alias".

The problem with Alias was the relay.  I set testing at zyvex dot com to
be aliased/forwarded to test3 at chem.wayne dot edu.  I emailed there
from another external account, and got the following bounce:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
testing at zyvex dot com

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mail.zyvex.com.:
>>> RCPT To:<testing at zyvex dot com>
<<< 553 RCPT TO:<testing at zyvex dot com> Relaying not allowed

Is it a limitation of WorldMail to have to make yourself susceptible
to being a spam relay if you want to forward your email to another
site?  Thanks in advance.

If so, I'm switching to a unix server.

-Mike

> To answer the question: 
> > "how do we forward all e-mails for an ex-employee to lets say, 
> >   somewhere@hotmail dot com?"
> 
> Browse down to find the ex-employee's old entry in their domain.  Delete
> it. Then go to the MANAGE menu select ADD then move over and select ALIAS...
> 
> The alias entry will ask you what to call their entry in your domain,
> use the same name they used to have. In the second box it will prompt
> you for a real address to forward to.  It creates an entry in your
> worldmail domain that is a "hollow head" person.  They have a name entry
> in your domain, but no mailbox.  Alias entries do not count against your
> number of available entries.
> 
> Now when anyone sends mail to that user's old address it gets
> automatically forwarded to the alias address.
> 
> You can use this service to create aliases for common addresses such as
> "postmaster" "personnel" "webmaster" and use the alias feature to point
> these addresses to a specific individual's mailbox without exposing that
> individual's address to the world.
> 
> Example:  You could put up a web page that lets people send comments to
> an address called "comments@yourdomain dot com"   You can then go to
> Worldmail and create an alias named "comments" and point it to the inbox
> of the person who is actually handling those comments.
> 
> Seymour
> 


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:39:35 -0700
From: William Hultman <whultman at home dot com>
Subject: Re: mail loop

At 01:57 PM 9/21/00 -0500, you wrote:
> >     A send-to user enables you to host the same domain on two or more
> > servers by telling WorldMail where the user's message store account is
> > actually located.
>
>Thanks for the explanation.  If "send-to" is only intended for different
>hosting names, then the better question would be "how do we forward
>all e-mails for an ex-employee to lets say, somewhere@hotmail dot com?"
>
>I normally administer unix machines, and would either leave it up
>to the user to put in a .forward in their home directory, or
>I would add this to their /etc/aliases file.

Normally, you would use an alias user, but since you have enabled relay 
restrictions (as you should), an alias will not work. This is a known bug 
with the server, but there is a work-around at 
<http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1891hq.html> that will do the same thing.

Bill



William B. Hultman
<<mailto:whultman at home dot com>whultman@home.<whultman at home dot com>com>
"I am not responsible for anything contained in this message.
It appears that my cats have learned to type."


----------
"Only wimps use tape backup: real men just upload their important stuff on 
FTP, and let the rest of  the world mirror it..." 


Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 06:33:12 -0600
From: Harry McIntosh <Harry.McIntosh at cdlearning dot com>
Subject: Re: mail loop

At 05:39 PM 9/21/00, you wrote:
>At 01:57 PM 9/21/00 -0500, you wrote:
>> >     A send-to user enables you to host the same domain on two or more
>> > servers by telling WorldMail where the user's message store account is
>> > actually located.
>>
>>Thanks for the explanation.  If "send-to" is only intended for different
>>hosting names, then the better question would be "how do we forward
>>all e-mails for an ex-employee to lets say, somewhere@hotmail dot com?"
>>
>>I normally administer unix machines, and would either leave it up
>>to the user to put in a .forward in their home directory, or
>>I would add this to their /etc/aliases file.
>
>Normally, you would use an alias user, but since you have enabled relay 
>restrictions (as you should), an alias will not work. This is a known bug 
>with the server, but there is a work-around at 
><http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1891hq.html> that will do the same thing.
>
>Bill

I'm confused by this bug.  We have relay restrictions on our server, and 
our aliases seem to be working fine.  Does this bug show up only part of 
the time?

Harry


From: "Sebastian Quek" <sebas at webmaster.com dot sg>
Subject: How to filter spam
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:28:37 +0800

Dear all,

i am using worldmail 2.0 and now my server is being spam by relay mails. How
can i filter off theses spammers?

Under one of the security features i have inserted the IP addresss and
subnetmask but still they manage to use my server.

Please advice..

Sebastian Quek



Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 20:22:06 -0700
From: William Hultman <whultman at home dot com>
Subject: Re: How to filter spam

At 02:28 PM 10/1/00 +0800, Sebastian Quek wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>i am using worldmail 2.0 and now my server is being spam by relay mails. How
>can i filter off theses spammers?
>
>Under one of the security features i have inserted the IP addresss and
>subnetmask but still they manage to use my server.
>
>Please advice..
>
>Sebastian Quek

There are instructions explaining how this is done at 
<http://www.eudora.com/techsupport/kb/1846hq.html>. What IP address/netmask 
did you use? If you let us know, myself or someone else from the list can 
assist you setting this up. Thanks,

Bill




William B. Hultman
<<mailto:whultman at home dot com>whultman@home.<whultman at home dot com>com>
"I am not responsible for anything contained in this message.
It appears that my cats have learned to type."


----------
"Only wimps use tape backup: real men just upload their important stuff on 
FTP, and let the rest of  the world mirror it..." 


From: "Ian Homewood" <ianh at stanley.co dot uk>
Subject: Security settings
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:48:34 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01C02D49.0241C0A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Some time ago, our mail server was used as an open relay and ended up
relaying thousands of messages to unsuspecting people.  When we found out,
we set the relay security settings to only allow our ISP and our local users
to relay mail via the server.  Everything has been quiet since then, until
yesterday.  Somebody managed to get a message relayed via our server, from
an ip address that should not be allowed.  When we checked the logs, they
showed a load of refusals for this, which seemed to indicate that the
restrictions were working, but then the messages started getting through.

Does anybody have any useful information on this for us?  Is there a bug in
WorldMail, or am I missing something?  Until we get this resolved we have
now restricted all smtp access except for our ISP and local users, so I hope
your replies get back to me.

Regards

Ian
**********************************************
From the desk of:

Ian Homewood
IT Controller
Stanley Leisure plc
Stanley House
151 Dale Street
Liverpool  L2 2JW

Tel: 0151 237 6000
Fax: 0151 237 6194

Any views expressed in this email are not necessarily
those of the company or its Directors.
**********************************************



------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01C02D49.0241C0A0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; =
charset=iso-8859-1">


<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><SPAN =
class=320374313-03102000>Some time 
ago, our mail server was used as an open relay and ended up relaying =
thousands 
of messages to unsuspecting people.  When we found out, we set the =
relay 
security settings to only allow our ISP and our local users to relay =
mail via 
the server.  Everything has been quiet since then, until =
yesterday.  
Somebody managed to get a message relayed via our server, from an ip =
address 
that should not be allowed.  When we checked the logs, they showed =
a load 
of refusals for this, which seemed to indicate that the restrictions =
were 
working, but then the messages started getting =
through.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><SPAN 
class=320374313-03102000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><SPAN =
class=320374313-03102000>Does 
anybody have any useful information on this for us?  Is there a bug =
in 
WorldMail, or am I missing something?  Until we get this resolved =
we have 
now restricted all smtp access except for our ISP and local users, so I =
hope 
your replies get back to me.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><SPAN 
class=320374313-03102000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><SPAN 
class=320374313-03102000>Regards</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><SPAN 
class=320374313-03102000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><SPAN 
class=320374313-03102000>Ian</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" 
size=2>**********************************************</FONT> <BR><FONT =

face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>From the desk of:</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Ian Homewood</FONT> <BR><FONT 
face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>IT Controller</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face="Comic Sans MS" 
size=2>Stanley Leisure plc</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" =
size=2>Stanley 
House</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>151 Dale =
Street</FONT> 
<BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Liverpool  L2 2JW</FONT> =
</P>
<P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Tel: 0151 237 6000</FONT> =
<BR><FONT 
face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Fax: 0151 237 6194</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Any views expressed in this =
email are not 
necessarily</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>those of =
the company or 
its Directors.</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" 
size=2>**********************************************</FONT> </P>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "marti jo webb" <marti at ramint dot com>
Subject: routing delay
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:14:55 -0700

I have an odd problem that maybe someone out there knows how to fix.  We
have 4 road warriors, 3 out of the country and 1 back east.  On Saturdays,
email to them is delayed and never sent.  On week days, we have no problem
sending.  I have changed the timeouts for routing but that doesn't seem to
work.  I am a little suspicious that it happens only on the weekend, however
my system is up 24/7 because of the time changes for those on the road.  It
has to be a setting on my end, but I where?

Any ideas?

Marti Jo Webb
RAM International
(760) 431-3610
mailto:marti at ramint dot com